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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Decision making and appeals  →  Thread

HMCTS and use of email

Martin Williams
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Welfare rights advisor - CPAG, London

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Hello,

I am a tad annoyed with the administrators for the FtT (SEC) at HMCTS refusing to issue copies of decisions or directions etc. via email. The reason cited is a rather unspecified “data protection” issue.

I often receive emailed directions and similar documents from the administrators for the UT (AAC).

In addition I understand that the DWP are sent every decision of the FtT via email. It seems to me there is an issue of unfairness there (in that they get copies of stuff immediately whereas we have to wait). That is particularly annoying when sometimes deadlines for responses are quite short and where HMCTS uses second class post only. Arguably this is a second class service for claimants generally as compared with what the DWP get.

My understanding is that HMCTS would explain this as because the DWP use secure email.

I also think our email is sufficiently secure in any event (I suspect their email supports something called TLS encryption anyway so by default my emails to them are encrypted in that way).

Furthermore, my clients, whenever I ask them, are happy for HMCTS to email me correspondence about their cases despite the possibly unencrypted nature of the email.

Finally, I note that rule 13(2) of the TP(FtT)(SEC) Rules 2008 definitely implies that it is ok for HMCTS to send documents by email if I provide them an email address.
—————-
Would be useful to know:

1. Does anyone have in place systems with HMCTS where they do correspond from the FtT via email?

2. Has anyone ever taken this up with them?

[ Edited: 20 Feb 2014 at 04:59 pm by Martin Williams ]
nevip
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Welfare rights adviser - Sefton Council, Liverpool

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Hi Martin

I regularly send further evidence by secure e-mail.  I raised this at the last TUG meeting over the issue of them returning rather sensitive evidence back to me by post which, as we know, occasionally gets sent back to the wrong appellant.  They said that there was no facility for them to do this and, off the top of my head, I can’t remember the exact reason.  However, I’ll get back to you on the reason when I get the minutes.

Bryan R
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Folkestone Welfare Union

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I often speask to Sutton via email and receive a response. I haven’t had any problems whatsoever.

Robbie Spence
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Independent benefits adviser and trainer

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Martin Williams - 20 February 2014 03:32 PM

... In addition I understand that the DWP are sent every decision of the FtT via email.  ...

This is interesting because I went to a TUG meeting with Robert Martin (President of SSCS Chamber) about one year ago where I asked, why can’t DWP email Mandatory Recon Notices direct to HMCTS so as to avoid the pitfall that claimant has already lost both copies when it’s time to lodge appeal. Judge Martin said there was no secure email (or intranet?) link between the two branches of government for this to be able to happen. Neil Bateman was there and I hope will remember this too.
If there is a link secure enough for emailing across decisions, I think it’s worth revisiting the question, which I’ll do in due course, and I’d encourage anyone else to do also.

Martin Williams
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Welfare rights advisor - CPAG, London

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It seems that in England and Wales it is not possible to file appeal by email. Obviously a devolved issue (!)....

FROM HMCTS-

Hi Martin,

I am sorry for the inconvenience caused.

I have contacted the Direct Lodgement office and the advised they don’t accept emails they can accept the SSCS1 Form and the MRN by post or Fax 0870 739 4108.

I hope this answers your query.


DDDD

________________________________________
From: Williams, Martin
Sent: 16 April 2014 11:19
To: ASC-Birmingham
Subject: RE: Filing Appeals via email
Dear Sir or Madam,

Please see the correspondence below.

As you can see, I originally asked for:

1.    Confirmation of whether it is possible to file an appeal by email; and
2.    If so what the email address for England was (eg “Is there an equivalent address…?”).

The reply I received stated that I could indeed file an appeal by email but did not provide the email address.

I queried this by replying to the sender of that email: again asking for the relevant email address.

I then received the email immediately below, informing me that I should not use ZZZZ’s email to correspond and that I should phone the call centre.

I have now phoned the call centre and been told they do not have such an email address.

I am therefore emailing ASC Birmingham again. I would be grateful if you could provide me with the email address to which claimants and their representatives can send scanned SSCS1 forms and MRN notices in order to file an appeal if they live in England or Wales.

CPAG is a national organisation which publishes the Welfare Benefits and Tax Credits Handbook as well as the Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Legislation (both of which are purchased by the Tribunal service for use by the judiciary). We need to be able to provide other advice organisations with details such as this email address.

Many thanks for your assistance.

Martin Williams
Welfare Rights Adviser

Gareth Morgan
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CEO, Ferret, Cardiff

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Could I suggest a FOI request to see any decisions made, considered or opinions received about the legality or practicality of receiving appeals or communicating results.

Peter Turville
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Welfare rights worker - Oxford Community Work Agency

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It does seem remarkable that we can email additional evidence, applications for directions etc to HMCTS but not the appeal (and MR notice) to start the process! There is no logic! At least they haven’t trotted out the classic ‘we only accept original documents’ line yet.

It would be equally useful to have an email address at DWP to send MR request too so they don’t disappear into the black (country) hole in Wolverhampton.

I can’t see any provision that prevents an MR or appeal being made or delivered by email (please correct me if I’m wrong).

Its strange that DWP promote digital as the way forward for claimants to make and manage their claims yet refuse to make digital provision for MR (and HMCTS for appeals). I dread to think what will happen at HMRC when MR comes in from April.

Martin - do you know if anyone has raised a PQ on the provision of email addresses by DWP/HMRC/HMCTS?

Perhaps its a way of ensuring Royal Mail maintain some business for the private sector to cream a profit from at the expense of claimants and advice agencies?

Bryan R
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Folkestone Welfare Union

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Excuse me for my ignorance here but I have sent GL24’s SSCS1’S and mandy’s to Sutton [scannd] and begun the process this way. I have also been sent decisions by email too. Admittedly this was agreed with them.

I have never tried this with Birmingham, so far, but I cannot understand why one part of HMCTS would find it acceptable and another not.

Perhaps Martin if you tinkle me I can pass on the info and the personal email to you

http://www.b48s.org.uk

Claire Hodgson
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PI Team, BHP Law, Durham

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Bryan R - 17 April 2014 07:18 PM

but I cannot understand why one part of HMCTS would find it acceptable and another not.

HAH. 
you want to try dealing with courts - one has one set of standard directions, one has another, and woe betide you if you don’t know what they are - the fact that you’ve never dealt with that court before being neither here nor there….

Linda Willars
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Senior benefits and deputyship officer - Leicestershire County Council

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My employers have paid for me to have a Government secure (GCSX) email address, but HMCTS in Birmingham still won’t let me receive anything from them by email.  Still, it’s good for sending submissions and extra evidence to them as nobody can deny receiving it and I don’t have to spend hours at a fax machine.