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Going against tribunal decision just 9 months later

CAR
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Welfare Rights, Citizens Advice Rutland

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Hi All,
I’m hoping for some advice and tips on how to tackle this please and am wondering if anyone else has had this happen to their clients?
My client has severe MH problems, in Feb 2016 a tribunal awarded them ER DL & ER Mob. This is the award we would have expected and should have been awarded from the initial claim. This was awarded until 16/08/2017.
In Sept client received a review form, we completed this and highlighted that things remained the same as they were when client went to tribunal and client’s needs were still very much significant. Client had med assessment at home with CPN attending for support.
Client notified on 25th Nov 2016 that they were only awarded 2 points for DL and 4 points for mobility and benefit has now ceased.
This has obviously caused severe distress to client and we will go through the normal channels to try and get this reconsidered but I was hoping that someone might have some advice on any other things I could be doing to try and get the DWP to see the error of their ways!
Thanks in advance!

John Birks
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Welfare Rights and Debt Advice - Stockport Council

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CAR
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Welfare Rights, Citizens Advice Rutland

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Thank you, will have a read.

Mike Hughes
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Senior welfare rights officer - Salford City Council Welfare Rights Service

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Very much depends on the specific condition but I am of the mindset that we need to rethink how we approach award length.

In the past we would win a tribunal and get someone their DLA. We might instinctively think a 3 year award was too little but both ourselves and the appellant could at least rest easy that it was unlikely the DLA would be looked at until 6 months before the end of the award and IB was simply there for as long as. It was far too easy to conduct a tribunal around the level of award with less or no emphasis on the length. Most appellants (and indeed WRAs) were simply relieved to have got level right.

Unfortunately we no longer live in that world. PIP checks are going to be every couple of years (even on the longer awards on current evidence) and claimants are under constant pressure because of ESA being constantly re-examined. In that context we need to think harder about presenting length of award as being as important as level and encourage claimants to challenge the length even if the level is correct.

This is obviously easier at the outset if everyone concerned addresses it. So, for example, your CPN could be asked if there was any reason whatsoever to expect an improvement and, if so, when? If not, then why not? Sometimes it needs spelling out. I’ve taken to putting a statement into PIP applications asking the DM to identify a reason and piece of evidence that would justify a time-limited award. Smallest award so far was 6 years and that should have been forever except the very young client wouldn’t challenge it.

I’ve had much success with this approach when challenging stupidly short awards of PIP e.g. someone in a wheelchair with a variety of physical and sensory ailments who has adapted as much as they’re going to in their 30s and is not going to see anything change bar deterioration or degeneration but gets a 3 year award. MR simply asks DWP to identify the specific piece of evidence which justified a time-limited award. There never is one so an open ended award is almost always the outcome. Worth thinking about in this and other cases.

Neil
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further to the above, based on advice from a Senior Judge at a FtT, when I win appeals for DLA, PIP or any other benefit that is subject to future renewal/ review, I request a Statement of Reasons, as this is good evidence. It won’t always stop a bad DWP decision, but it will carry a lot of weight at a future appeal.

Mike Hughes
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... which is interesting as in our area there is considerable antagonism towards those reps. who ask for statements in every case. It’s not a welcome thing at all.

Mike Hughes
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Andyp4 - 06 December 2016 03:56 PM
Mike Hughes - 06 December 2016 03:08 PM

... which is interesting as in our area there is considerable antagonism towards those reps. who ask for statements in every case. It’s not a welcome thing at all.

Apparently Judges don’t get paid if reps request SOR, but do if DWP request them.

That’s definitely not true.

Dan_Manville
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Mike Hughes - 06 December 2016 03:08 PM

... which is interesting as in our area there is considerable antagonism towards those reps. who ask for statements in every case. It’s not a welcome thing at all.

A quick google of Aster communities tells me that it’s quite an affluent rural patch; those Judges might need something to justify their existence.

Neil
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As it happens I was working in the Wiltshire area, and the Judge in question was based in Bristol, and believe me the people I deal with are Social Housing Tenants who are no where near affluent, though the Judges maybe. But to say the Judges don’t get paid, come on they make enough in general to soak this one thing up, after all they are they are the Guardians of Natural Justice.

But on a serious note the SoR request is crucial, as the DWP rarely include a reference to the past appeal papers let alone the decision papers, but always have the original documents used to refuse the award that was successfully appealed.

Mike Hughes
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Neil - 07 December 2016 12:33 PM

As it happens I was working in the Wiltshire area, and the Judge in question was based in Bristol, and believe me the people I deal with are Social Housing Tenants who are no where near affluent, though the Judges maybe. But to say the Judges don’t get paid, come on they make enough in general to soak this one thing up, after all they are they are the Guardians of Natural Justice.

But on a serious note the SoR request is crucial, as the DWP rarely include a reference to the past appeal papers let alone the decision papers, but always have the original documents used to refuse the award that was successfully appealed.

Full time judges most likely don’t get paid for SoRs. Fee paid are definitely paid for statements. However, if one were to write a statement for every tribunal you heard I suspect no amount of money would be adequate compensation!

John Birks
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Personally I’d not ask for WSR & RoP where the decision appears to be generous.

I’m not keen on the argument that a WSR & RoP can safely be described as ‘good evidence’ in case of a review/supersession.

Mike Hughes
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Andyp4 - 09 December 2016 01:26 PM
Mike Hughes - 07 December 2016 12:49 PM
Neil - 07 December 2016 12:33 PM

As it happens I was working in the Wiltshire area, and the Judge in question was based in Bristol, and believe me the people I deal with are Social Housing Tenants who are no where near affluent, though the Judges maybe. But to say the Judges don’t get paid, come on they make enough in general to soak this one thing up, after all they are they are the Guardians of Natural Justice.

But on a serious note the SoR request is crucial, as the DWP rarely include a reference to the past appeal papers let alone the decision papers, but always have the original documents used to refuse the award that was successfully appealed.

Full time judges most likely don’t get paid for SoRs. Fee paid are definitely paid for statements. However, if one were to write a statement for every tribunal you heard I suspect no amount of money would be adequate compensation!

I did use the word ‘apparently’, i.e. parrotting what a fee paid judge told me a few years, and secondly it was off at a tangent post following Mike’s comments about Tribunals and requesting SOR’s, not a subjective post regarding the comment ‘But to say judges don’t get paid’ as either justifying or not justifying etc etc etc

I think it was the case that fee paid used to get nothing for a single statement but would get paid something if they were asked for two statements from the same session i.e. half day. That changed with the legal cases around their pensions, treatment as part-timers etc. and they now have to be paid for every statement. I suspect, as is the way with these things, that the new payment will inevitably be less than the old one.