Lobster Pot is dead

So the DWP say officially.

See my post at http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewreply/37328/

I’ve started thinking about the implications of this.

It does seem that where there is a change of circumstances to ‘outside the Gateway conditions’, in a Gateway area, that a better off calculation should be carried out. That might not be as straightforward as it seems. The consequence is going to be that the claimant will probably stay on the legacy benefits until a managed migration takes place; in the absence of any change of circumstances which ends the legacy claim. There may well be some people who would have a foreseeable future change which might make it better for them to stay on UC.

Isn’t simplicity wonderful?

Many thanks Gareth. As you say, the Lobster Pot may be dead, but eventually the UC mother ship will remove the issue entirely when it manage moves everyone. Lets hope that as many claimants as possible will have their legacy disability premiums in place by then to maximise their TP.

Gareth, thanks for drawing attention to that FOI - I’d not seen it.

As we discussed earlier ( http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/7434/ )  previous comments from DWP have been equivocal but this *looks* like a fairly clear admission but claimants who have a change of circumstances which put them outside gateway can opt to revert to legacy (with no six month gap).

If so, then it seems that the Lobster Pot, as originally described,  has only ever existed in practice for the tiny minority of UC claimants on the digital service.

I’m still not sure how we square this ...

“The policy is that once you are on UC and your claim is live you remain on UC whatever the changes in your circs”

( http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewreply/35585/ )

... with

“No provision in the Universal Credit Regulations or Commencement Orders
explicitly permits or prohibits the relinquishment of a Universal Credit award.
In the absence of such a prohibition, a person receiving Universal Credit who
wished to end their award could contact this Department in the usual way
when they have a question concerning their award. Once this Department has
received the claimant’s notification that they wish to relinquish their award, the
necessary work would be taken to end it. “

As you say, some claimants - such as apf’s client in this thread ( http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/8387/ ) could be much better off relinquishing their UC claim and reverting to legacy.

It’s worth remembering that some of the the gateway conditions are framed in terms of the claimant’s beliefs, intentions and expectations at the time of the UC claim - these could change (entirely legitimately) from one day to the next.

It looks like the department will keep you normally but you can leave if you wish.

I think it’s now become a Lobster Boat.  The DWP won’t throw you back but you can jump over the side.

‘Welcome to the Hotel California’ (etc, etc…)

Ah; is that a reference to the oeuvre of some popular music combo?

Given the consensus in relation to opting out of UC on the proviso that a change now prevents re-entry, should Alan’s client wait until the end of their AP before withdrawing from UC?

I think timing of withdrawing a UC claim would be crucial given that no UC would be paid for the Assessment period in which the claim ended in these circumstances.  So it would surely have to be either just after the end of the AP ... or if client worried about money (who isn’t?) .... after they have received a payment, just in case closure causes any delay in payment at DWP end?

Also I think advisers and clients may well be nervous about what will happen in reality ... how quickly will DWP process the new IRESA claim and the LA process the HB?  Will they need persuading of the info in this FOI in contradiction to the DWP stated policy intention of ‘Once on UC you stay on UC’ .... meanwhile client has no money?

As has been said already I think, you would need to be sure that the client isn’t a person who is likely to have a change of circs that would, in the near future, mean they would have been better off on UC.

Have just posted a reply on the previous thread on this topic but noticed this is a more up to date one.
As Sarah said, timing is crucial- we’ve written a briefing paper so if anyone wants a copy please message me.
(Like the lobster boat analogy Gareth!)

Happy to post your briefing paper here if that’s helpful?

If so, you can either attach it to a post if not too big a file, or email it to us ... .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Cheers -Shawn

We had a look through it a couple of weeks back, in response to an advice line query.

Here it is Universal Credit – better off situations for some claimants

We’d be very interested to hear people’s experiences of trying to follow the advice given, if anyone does come across clients who make the move backwards as it were.