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Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Work capability issues and ESA  →  Thread

esa after 30th march.

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Dan_Manville
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Karina K - 24 March 2015 02:10 PM

would we just have to argue the toss with them on the new claims line, or would you suggest a paper form handed into the JCP and receipted?

Paper claim…

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Karina K
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Cheers Dan - I’ve got the fella booked in tomorrow to do this. I can think of things I’d much rather do than argue the toss with them over the phone.

As you were - back to the techie stuff!

Dan_Manville
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Sorry Karina but you’re wasting your time. The reg 147A determination kicks in from the first day of the benefit week following the date upon which the SoS receives the Tribunal decision. reg 147A (5A) applies

That is inevitably next week so past 30th.

Back to the “not my job description” techie stuff; scope of S117 MHA ‘83 and payment of housing costs where a patient is excluded from S21 NAA ‘48 by virtue of S115 IAA ‘99… destitue plus!

[ Edited: 24 Mar 2015 at 03:47 pm by Dan_Manville ]
Karina K
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Well, C**p.

I’m struggling to find a link to reg 147.  It’s not one I’ve come across having been out of the WR loop for a while. I rarely ever had any cases at tribunal because my service users were all cancer patients back in the day.  Can you explain a little more what this means please Dan, or direct me to an appropriate thread - I’m conscious about hijacking this one.

Would we have been ok if we’d delivered the judgement to the DWP last Friday? If, so, I won’t beat myself up about it because the judge did not give the ruling that day - she sent it to my client by post. He’s in a bad way since he received it.

So, what next? Only option if we can’t get an ESA claim in is UC, and without LCW, which he is completely incapable of sustaining.  Should we bang in a repeat claim anyway? We’ll soon see how the DWP are interpreting the new regs change.

Dan_Manville
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See 147A attached.

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Dan_Manville
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Karina K - 24 March 2015 04:23 PM

So, what next? Only option if we can’t get an ESA claim in is UC, and without LCW, which he is completely incapable of sustaining.  Should we bang in a repeat claim anyway? We’ll soon see how the DWP are interpreting the new regs change.

 

You could do the repeat claim and appeal the refusal on grounds that Tom has discussed above; I think his interpretation is bang on, however he will need some money in the interim. While he’s disputing an ESA decision wouldn’t he still be entitled to legacy? JSA might go easier than UC in the grand scheme of things. I’ve not looked to closely but isn;t it easier to restrict jobsearch activities under JSA?

On the other hand I’ve just thought; if your Tribunal sends decisions to DWP electronically it might be deemed to be served on 19th ESA should have stopped from l Monday gone… I’d ring your friendly neighbourhood appeal clerks; ask whether they email decisions or post them (they email them here) and get the ESA1 done just in case. With the termination date deemed; even if they pay him past 30th (it might have stopped by now) then his LCW is deemed to have ended from the first Monday after they get the decision; it’s the end of LCW that’s key so long as the claim’s in this week,

Seat of the pants stuff!

Karina K
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It’s got to be worth a go, Dan.  We’ll get the paper claim in and unpick it later. I’ll try and get hold of the tribunal clerk tomorrow.

No option for JSA, unfortunately.  An SOR from the Tribunal has been requested but the decision has now been made on his LCW and there’s no decision pending.  I’m afraid this client meets the gateway conditions for UC and there’s no way we’d get the JCP to accept a claim for JSA.

Thanks for all your help, Dan. It’s really appreciated.

[ Edited: 24 Mar 2015 at 04:57 pm by Karina K ]
Dan_Manville
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Karina K - 24 March 2015 04:51 PM

  An SOR from the Tribunal has been requested but the decision has now been made on his LCW and there’s no decision pending.

There will be if a new claim’s refused though…

It’s a trade off against delays that might be costly but worth considering

LJF
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But didn’t you say that as the dwp will stop his money that he’s been getting whilst appealing that he no longer be treated as having lcw that there has then been no decision that he has not got lcw and so a new claim will be fine?
Or is that just a loophole argument and the reality is that the dwp will just look at a previous failure full stop ?

Karina K
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Dan Manville - 25 March 2015 09:22 AM
Karina K - 24 March 2015 04:51 PM

  An SOR from the Tribunal has been requested but the decision has now been made on his LCW and there’s no decision pending.

There will be if a new claim’s refused though…

It’s a trade off against delays that might be costly but worth considering

Good news in that the new claim has been accepted. I had two messages on my answerphone from the ESA contact centre bemoaning why I wasn’t in work on Saturday, and rang this morning to find that they had already put the new claim into payment based on self-certification.  Now we get the chance to do the whole thing properly from the start (the client had completed his ESA50 very poorly which goosed him from the beginning).

Thanks Dan and everyone else for your advice and support!

Brian JB
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DWP just issued memo to their staff on this change - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/decision-makers-guide-memos-staff-guide - DMG memo 10/15. Always useful to see the guidance given to staff ,whether or not we agree with all of it (and I haven’t looked closely at it myself yet)

Ros
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DWP has also just issued an expanded notes section for the ESA claim form to include advice for claimants who have claimed before -

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employment-and-support-allowance-claim-form

Sophia2013
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Hello I have a client who received the tribunal decision on 28 March 2015
Appeal decision did not go in his favour
DWP is saying he can only apply if there is a singnificant deterioration in his condition.
Are they right ?

Thank you

Dan_Manville
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Sophia2013 - 07 April 2015 03:47 PM

Hello I have a client who received the tribunal decision on 28 March 2015
Appeal decision did not go in his favour
DWP is saying he can only apply if there is a singnificant deterioration in his condition.
Are they right ?

Thank you

No, he can apply but it will be refused. Sounds like the new claims hotline are gatekeeping which is a bit naughty as everyone has a right for a claim to be determined.

Unless, of course, he has deteriorated he might want to apply first and put the scrap up before claiming JSA which might take a few weeks or he might just want to plump for JSA.

Sophia2013
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Thanks Dan, I was under the impression that as long as you have a new or worsenning condition you can reapply with medical evidence