× Search rightsnet
Search options

Where

Benefit

Jurisdiction

Jurisdiction

From

to

Forum Home  →  Discussion  →  Disability benefits  →  Thread

PIP descriptors higher than aids and appliances

Mr Finch
forum member

Benefits adviser - Isle of Wight CAB

Send message

Total Posts: 509

Joined: 4 March 2011

Although it’s a small sample size, I’ve just released that I don’t think I have seen a PIP assessment that has awarded more than 2 daily living points for any descriptor, and all the 2-point awards are for aids and appliances.

One assessment even mentions the client needs assistance lifting, but has still given an award only for aids and appliances. Is this perhaps the old problem of bottom-up counting (stopping at the first descriptor that applies)?

Edmund Shepherd
forum member

Tenancy Income, Royal Borough of Greenwich, London

Send message

Total Posts: 508

Joined: 4 December 2013

I’ve seen similar assessments. However, as the overall decisions appear to have mostly been fair, I’ve not taken it to appeal. I wonder whether the DMs making those decisions are used to DLA/AA claims where the use of an aid or appliance would potentially preclude an award. Maybe more guidance is needed.

elaineforrest
forum member

Benefits specialist - Dumfries & Galloway Citizens Advice

Send message

Total Posts: 64

Joined: 16 June 2010

The difference between PIP and DLA, when examining the role of “aids and appliances”, is quite striking. With PIP the more the merrier when it comes to “aids and appliances”. With DLA they have a negative impact on the possibility of an award. I actively encourage my PIP clients and appellants to seek an Occupational Therapy assessment and to accept everything offered to them.

stevejohnsontrainer
forum member

@theflipchart ltd

Send message

Total Posts: 124

Joined: 15 August 2013

Seems to me that on the one hand aids and appliance use can be destructive to points because they are supposed to betaken into account to mitigate needs (reg 4 PIP regs), but on the other hand they can be used to harvest multiple low points scores, as has been pointed out. So the overall effect may be to reduce individual high point scoring opportunities, but at the same time allow multiple low scoring opportunities. The PIP Assessment Guide is liberal on what can be an aid (e.g. refers to electric can openers). I agree PIP probably offers more possibilities than DLA, in this way.

Mike Hughes
forum member

Senior welfare rights officer - Salford City Council Welfare Rights Service

Send message

Total Posts: 3138

Joined: 17 June 2010

I appreciate we’re talking small sample sizes here but has anyone had an example of reg. 4 being followed? My experience thusfar has been that aids/adaptations = points and the impact of any mitigation appears to have been completely ignored. It’s a promising start but unlikely to be sustained.

Thoughts?

Mr Finch
forum member

Benefits adviser - Isle of Wight CAB

Send message

Total Posts: 509

Joined: 4 March 2011

I’ve seen more decisions now, and although there is also an occasional 3-point award for bathing (which makes no difference), a disproportionate number of decisions are of 3x 2 points.

It might be a local problem but I’m fairly sure that there is an unofficial policy that 4-point and above descriptors for daily living are off limits or at least rationed. Even when the report finds as a fact that the claimant needs and receives help cooking, the conclusion is ‘I accept you need aid or appliances to cook - 2 points’.

Geri-G
forum member

Welfare reform team - North Ayrshire Council

Send message

Total Posts: 91

Joined: 4 June 2013

I have had a couple of people with 4 point awards for preparing food, and got a decision yesterday where someone got 4 points for taking nutrition

BC Welfare Rights
forum member

The Brunswick Centre, Kirklees & Calderdale

Send message

Total Posts: 1366

Joined: 22 July 2013

Just had one through where claimant got 44 points in DL and 16 for mobility. They have still managed to do him over on a couple of things though - 0 points for communicating, 0 points for managing therapy - even though he has near complete paralysis.

This was pushed through as an urgent case by both myself and his specialist nurse, as a result they raced through to a decision in a mere 7 months…

Unfortunately he has been in hospital most of the time so won’t get much actual benefit paid. And they will contact him re. renewal in less than 12 months time.

Grrrr!