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client with closed UC claim claiming ESA
be grateful for any opinions.
client with learning disability, no dla or pip and on UC. fails to attend appointments and claim closed. he is now a ft student and having spoke to his dad today i have advised him to make the pip1 phone call. he is in an area where gateway conditions still apply.
the course he is on is an employability one with a really high success rate of getting their students into employment so im thinking longer term of a pip and wtc as a disabled worker outcome rather than being on UC.
i know (i think) you can choose to end a claim to uc and claim legacy benefits but if you move off UC due to income being too high that you get kept in the pot for a period of 6 months.
anyone know what happens though if you just fail to attend?
technically he isnt entitled to ESA at the moment as a ft non disabled student but in normal circumstances i would get them to claim this pending the pip outcome to protect backdating if awarded but i dont want to jump in if there is a risk i could cost the client longer term.
Hi Steven,
Yes I think that as he is still in a gateway conditions area, irESA isn’t abolished for his circumstances and he can claim it.
The gateway condition he would fail to meet would be that he has a ‘statement of fitness for work’ from his GP, or has applied for one, or simply that he declares that he is unfit for work (Commencement Order no 9, Sched 5 - amended gateway conditions).
The abolition date in relation to a claim and any award made in respect of a claim is the date he claims irESA AND meets the gateway conditions (source depends which commencement order applies to his area).
Hopefully his PIP claim will be successful and all will work out.
fails to attend appointments and claim closed.
Did he get a decision letter ending entitlement?
As you say, SI.No.1780/2015, which might have kept open the door to UC for 6 months, should only apply to those who float off UC due to excess earnings, not for other reasons. And it only prevents new claims to IS/HB/tax credits, no mention of ESA. So if you think he would be better off avoiding UC, I can’t see a scenario where trying to claim ir-ESA now should prevent that.
I don’t know of any other route to a UC award staying live while not in payment, unless DWP allowed good cause for non-attendance or something similar, and then just accidentally left the UC claim open. This seems a bit unlikely to me, but who knows ... this is not just a question of what the law says, it may also be a question of the DWP IT system blocking one benefit due to another claim still being “open on the computer”.
Just to be sure, could you ask UC if there is still a lurking “claim”? If for some reason there is, then the client can decide whether to formally request to relinquish/withdraw it.
There’s a somewhat confusing new UC bit of guidance published today at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-credit-different-earning-patterns-and-your-payments/universal-credit-different-earning-patterns-and-your-payments-payment-cycles
Throughout the references to different earnings periods it says:
“If you take on additional work and earn enough to no longer get Universal Credit you will be notified of this. Should your earnings reduce in the following months you will need to re-apply – although the process will be quicker as we will have most of your details to hand.
If you have already been getting Universal Credit the month before, you do not need to wait 7 days to be eligible again and your assessment period starts immediately.”
Does re-apply mean reclaim?
Thanks for the link - interesting.
...
Does re-apply mean reclaim?
I think so. Reg 6 C&P regs is abolished (except in live-service areas) so in full service areas a new claim (hopefully streamlined in some way) would be required after each nil UC AP.
Interesting to see that the DWP are (finally) waking up to the complexities for non-monthly-paid workers but they’re completely failing to draw the obvious conclusions.
Given that even the first “info-graphic”
is obviously way over the head of some work coaches ( see Andrew’s earlier thread: http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10251/ ) - the mantra “You can speak to your work coach about support available to help you budget and manage your money more effectively if you get a gap in your Universal Credit payments.” isn’t too reassuring.
Even this just looks at the simple cases - they don’t even consider couples with different payment cycles - nor what will happen when (if?) the surplus earnings rules come in.
Thanks for the link - interesting.
...
Does re-apply mean reclaim?I think so. Reg 6 C&P regs is abolished (except in live-service areas) so in full service areas a new claim (hopefully streamlined in some way) would be required after each nil UC AP.
Interesting to see that the DWP are (finally) waking up to the complexities for non-monthly-paid workers but they’re completely failing to draw the obvious conclusions.
Given that even the first “info-graphic”
is obviously way over the head of some work coaches ( see Andrew’s earlier thread: http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewthread/10251/ ) - the mantra “You can speak to your work coach about support available to help you budget and manage your money more effectively if you get a gap in your Universal Credit payments.” isn’t too reassuring.
Even this just looks at the simple cases - they don’t even consider couples with different payment cycles - nor what will happen when (if?) the surplus earnings rules come in.
Or claimants with two or more ‘mini jobs’ on different payment cycles - eg fortnightly and monthly.
Even this just looks at the simple cases - they don’t even consider couples with different payment cycles - nor what will happen when (if?) the surplus earnings rules come in.
It’s also going to mislead self-employed people, as their earnings list includes self-employment.
did the surplus earnings nonsense not get chucked?
we responded to the consultation on that. i do the drafting for them and then others amend etc before sending and they were looking at me perplexed over the convoluted nonsense of it all.
I get a lot of sympathy from non advice staff in here after i explain things to them!
did the surplus earnings nonsense not get chucked?
Still pencilled-in for April 2018 ( they’ve already been delayed twice).
did the surplus earnings nonsense not get chucked?
Still pencilled-in for April 2018 ( they’ve already been delayed twice).
thanks for that.