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Top Housing Benefit & Council Tax Benefit topic #5680

Subject: "Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom" First topic | Last topic
Nicola Wallace
                              

Welfare consultant - Housing benefit advice, Ecallawn Consultancy, London
Member since
06th Apr 2005

Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom
Fri 02-Nov-07 10:32 AM

Housing benefit are refusing to pay the communal hot water charge of £3 per week. This is the tenant's share of the hot water from the communal bathroom, which she has to pay whether she uses the bathroom hot water or not. She occupies a large room in a house with s and the bathroom is shared. However, she has her own cooking facilties, sink etc., within her flat, which includes a hot water supply which she pays for.
HB's reason for refusing is that the cost of the communal hot water has been entered on the rent register as not eligible for HB by the rent officer, as its a registered rent.
I also applied for a discretionary housing payment for the hot water, on the gounds that a DHP can be as much as the 'eligible rent' even if HB are already paying the eligible rent but this was also refused.
Any ideas for an appeal re the hot water?

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom, jmembery, 02nd Nov 2007, #1
RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom, Nicola Wallace, 02nd Nov 2007, #2
      RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom, jmembery, 02nd Nov 2007, #3
           RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom, jmembery, 02nd Nov 2007, #4
                RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom, Nicola Wallace, 02nd Nov 2007, #5
                     RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom, Peter Turville, 14th Nov 2007, #6
                          RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom, nevip, 14th Nov 2007, #7
                               RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom, Kevin D, 14th Nov 2007, #8
                                    RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom, nevip, 15th Nov 2007, #9

jmembery
                              

Benefits Manager AVDC, Aylesbury Vale DC - Aylusbury bucks
Member since
01st Mar 2004

RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom
Fri 02-Nov-07 12:58 PM

Para 8 of Schedule 1 of the 2006 regs gives the definition;

"communal areas" mean areas (other than rooms) of common access (including halls and passageways) and rooms of common use in sheltered accommodation;

So the issue in your client's case is not really about the figure the Rent Officer has quoted. Either your client is in sheltered accommodation, in which case HB should meet the charges, or she isn't in which case they can't.

  

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Nicola Wallace
                              

Welfare consultant - Housing benefit advice, Ecallawn Consultancy, London
Member since
06th Apr 2005

RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom
Fri 02-Nov-07 01:06 PM

Thank you for your reply but I had thought if HB covers heating and lighting for common areas, can't this cover extend to the bathroom, which is a common area? Its not sheltered housing.

  

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jmembery
                              

Benefits Manager AVDC, Aylesbury Vale DC - Aylusbury bucks
Member since
01st Mar 2004

RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom
Fri 02-Nov-07 01:49 PM

I am afraid that the exemption is not that wide.

  

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jmembery
                              

Benefits Manager AVDC, Aylesbury Vale DC - Aylusbury bucks
Member since
01st Mar 2004

RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom
Fri 02-Nov-07 01:52 PM

The detail is below.

Para 5 of Schedule 1 part 1 says

“A service charge for fuel except a charge in respect of services for communal areas shall be ineligible to be met by housing benefit.”

Paragraph 8 clarified that
In this Schedule—

"communal areas" mean areas (other than rooms) of common access (including halls and passageways) and rooms of common use in sheltered accommodation;
"fuel" includes gas and electricity and a reference to a charge for fuel includes a charge for fuel which includes an amount in respect of the facility of providing it other than a specified amount for the provision of a heating system.

Sorry

  

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Nicola Wallace
                              

Welfare consultant - Housing benefit advice, Ecallawn Consultancy, London
Member since
06th Apr 2005

RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom
Fri 02-Nov-07 01:58 PM

Thank you for letting me know and for explaining it all

  

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Peter Turville
                              

welfare rights worker, Oxfordshire Welfare Rights
Member since
03rd Feb 2004

RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom
Wed 14-Nov-07 03:18 PM

We currently have 2 cases CH/1116/07 & CH/1675/07 (with 20+ stayed) at the early stages concerning the meaning of "sheltered accomodation". These cases concern utility charges for the shared areas of accomodation for adults with severe learning disabilities. Accomodation is 'shared housing' with 24 hour support.

HB argue this is not 'sheltered accomodation' because the level of support provided makes it 'supported accomodation' - the level of support provided is so high that the tenants are so sheltered that it's not sheltered accomodation - if you see what they mean!

  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom
Wed 14-Nov-07 04:40 PM

Hi Peter

I think HB maybe confusing themselves and could be right but for the wrong reasons.. In my view it is not the amount of support, which distinguishes supported accommodation from sheltered accommodation, but the nature of that support.

When I was helping to set up supported accommodation under the Transitional Housing Benefit scheme there were various levels of support provided but that did not make any of them sheltered accommodation. We had individuals living on their own or sharing, some with low level support others with 24-hour cover, within the general housing stock.

A typical definition of sheltered housing would run along the lines of "housing which is purpose built or converted exclusively for sale to elderly people with a package of estate management services and which consists of grouped, self-contained accommodation with an emergency alarm system, usually with communal facilities and normally with a resident warden." (from a memo to the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister by The Retirement Housing Group of the House Builders Federation). The same definition would apply to rented accommodation.

Of course, one could argue that the definition could and should be extended to embrace other types of client groups such as people with learning disabilities or younger people with severe physical disabilities. But the core of the definition of sheltered housing in my view is the set up of the scheme itself and the nature of support provided and not the level of that support.

I hope you are able to prove me wrong.

Regards
Paul

  

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Kevin D
                              

Freelance HB & CTB Consultant/Trainer, Hertfordshire
Member since
20th Jan 2004

RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom
Wed 14-Nov-07 07:53 PM

In terms of hot water charges, I'm not sure why it matters whether or not the accommodation is EITHER "sheltered accommodation", OR "exempt accommodation". Anyone care to shed some light on this?

NB (to Paul): It may be that we're at cross purposes, but the amount of care etc definitely matters in cases of "exempt accommodation". But, this has no bearing on the issue of hot water charges.

  

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nevip
                              

welfare rights adviser, sefton metropolitan borough council, liverpool.
Member since
22nd Jan 2004

RE: Deduction for hot water in communal bathroom
Thu 15-Nov-07 09:17 AM

Hi Kevin

I am concentrating solely on a definition of sheltered accommodation.

  

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Top Housing Benefit & Council Tax Benefit topic #5680First topic | Last topic