I have an appeal/complaint going through which I need some advice about..

Cli had bank account which was closed in 2005, HB wrote to the bank asking when the account was closed, as cli. does not have this info.. The bank have ignored the letter thus far.

My question is, surely HB only need bank statements etc to verify cli does not have huge amounts of cpaital or other income coming into the account, surely, they dont need to know when an account was closed in order to award HB..?

Or am I wrong..?

There is no obvious reason why an HB assessment should be interested in 2005 circumstances. I have only ever come accross it where a question has arisen over whether a claimant has "deprived him/herself of capital in order to claim or improve benefit"

The question you need to ask is how and why did the HB assessor know about the account. The answer to that will probably reveal the motive.

Wed 05-Mar-08 02:51 PM by plumduff

They were questioning how his IB was paid. He informed them by cheque. They info 2'd him about this again, and asking whether he had a bank account. He said no he didnt have a bank a/c as it was closed in Nov 2005.. Since then, they have constantly asked him to prove it is closed.

They even stated in a letter to him, that they were not backdating as they didnt beleive he got his IB payments by cheque. They have now accepted this, but still go on about the bank acocunt.

I have contacted the banks complaint section and asked for this info, but feel that they are holding up the claim for info that is not actually required.

reg 86 requires him to provide any information, evidence etc as may reasonably be required in order to determine his entitlement. they do not need this information in order to make that determination.

i'm incredulous that they put in writing a refusal of backdating on the grounds that they didn't believe his evidence about his method of IB payments...!!!!!!!!! ( i mean that they actually put it in writing!)

Erm...forgive me for being dense but how does he cash his IB payments without a bank account? Does he take them to a cheque cashing place and incur a charge??

I assumed it was a giro cheque.. Now you have me thinking..?

H jj...

Yes, I have the letter at work, which states that HB cannot be backdated as they have not had a response from the bank that the account was closed...

Benefit regs do not specify what things a LA can or cannot ask for by way of verification. The key point is Reg 86(1) which (to paraphrase) states that a claimant shall provide such evidence, documents, info as may reasonably be required by the LA to determine entitlement.

I would say that the first step is to find out why this particular bit of information is so vital to the question to be determined (must say I'm not clear at all in this case). If the LA cannot advance any genuine reason, it starts to look "unreasonable"!

Its probably a minor thing but do you know why the account was closed i.e. was your client made bankrupt or something similar? If so is there any evidence of that as it might help.

Regards

Would his credit reference agency records show the account & the date it was closed? Or will it have been deleted entirely from them?

Is you client at risk of losing their home due to rent arrears? If so is it a Counsil / Almo tenancy. You can possibly look at a judicial review if it is if that helps. On a side issue it looks like a real good case to end up with the Ombudsman.

Regards.

There can only be one reason why this LA is pursuing this matter of a defunct bank account with such tenacity -

1. some assessor doesn't seem to be able to get his head around the concept of people not having bank accounts and being paid by Giro and/or

2. said assessor has a suspicion that he's unearthed a fraud case....no evidence, just a 25 watt light bulb going on somewhere in his head....If this is the case, then he should have reported suspected fraud to his fraud section before now.

I assume that the LA obtained a signed letter of Authority permitting disclosure of info from the client before writing to the bank concerned - without it of course, the Bank cannot even confirm that such a bank acct ever existed.

It appears in this case that you are running into a particularly persistant assessor: personally I would by now be writing letters of complaint to the HB Manager with a copy to the LA CEO, included in which would be a reference to the prospect of JR proceedings. This has been known in the past to have broken such impasses.....

Thank you for all the replies, its good to know that I seem to have good reason to be getting annoyed at this..

Complaint already on going, so may enquire about this matter in order for them to proceed with his current claim.

One minor point Mike.. whats a CEO..?

Chief Executive ...........

and don't forget about interim payments - most LA's do! Have a look at reg 93 which imposes a duty to make a payment on account if the circs in the regulation are met.

I've never yet come across an authority that's honoured this duty of it's own accord.

Oh, and it doesn't apply to council tenants as they get 'rent rebate' not 'rent allowance'.

“Since then, they have constantly asked him to prove it is closed”. Notwithstanding all that has been said about the requirement to furnish information that the Authority reasonably requires etc, this statement is quite revealing. He does not have to prove anything. He has given them the information, i.e. he does not have a bank account. If the LA suspects he has then it is up to it to provide some concrete evidence of such an account.

In my view it is an abuse of power to delay processing a claim for benefit (with potentially severe consequences for the claimant) based on groundless suspicion or upon the recalcitrance of a third party over which the claimant has no control.

The operative word being reasonable - by no stretch of the imaginination can asking for evidence of the closure of a bank acct some three years prior to the claim be described as reasonable......

Just to update, as I had put a request to the LA asking for their reasons for wanting this information.. Halifax have now responded (hurray...!) and informed us that the account was closed Jan 2006 (client thought Dec 05)...

So Hb should be processed unless the LA can come up with some other reason for delaying it...

Big thank you to everyone who gave me advice.. x x x

As a general rule, requirements on a claimant to "prove" a negative are unlikely to be reasonable! I still occasionally see cases where a claimant has been asked to prove they are not working, or that the have no bank account, or that they or someone else does NOT live at an address.

As a trainer I do try to discourage this. I generally ask HB assessors "what form would this proof take?" If they cannot tell me then the general conclusion is that it can't be reasonable.